A very important question that is asked only infrequently is "How much horizontal rotation do you need?
Horizontal rotation is sometimes referred to as rotation about the bar. It is the rotation that causes the jumper to rotate from a vertical orientation at takeoff, through a horizontal position above the bar, and then up-side-down into the pit.
This rotation is originates during the takeoff drive as the sum of two separate rotations:
1. Lateral rotation, which is rotation in the plane formed by the hips and shoulders (at their orientation at takeoff). Lateral rotation supplies the bulk of the rotation about the bar. Lateral rotation is sometimes called cartwheeling rotation. The axis of this rotation is front to back.
2. Somersaulting rotation, which is rotation in the plane formed by the spine and sternum (breastbone, also as they are oriented at takeoff). Somersaulting rotation, when used, provides only a small fraction of the rotation about the bar. Indeed, I consider using any somersaulting rotation at all to be an advanced technique, thus somersaulting rotation will not be discussed in this post. I would, in fact, avoid somersaulting rotation unless analysis of your bar clearance clearly shows that it is necessary. The axis of this rotation is side to side.
So, what is the proper amount of rotation about the bar? The correct amount is: just enough to rotate your body to a horizontal orientation at the moment the center of mass reaches it's apex (highest point). If everything else is done correctly, the apex of the flight will be directly above the center of the bar.
Executed in this way, your body can be held in a gently arched position throughout the flight and all parts of your body will clear the bar by approximately the same amount (lumps, bumps, and other projections from the underside of your body not withstanding).
Some will claim that you should lift your feet at the last moment, but in my opinion raising your feet is unnecessary at best, and counterproductive at worst. This is because raising your feet will drop your butt, and when the jump is really close you can't time this well enough to avoid catching something on the bar. Better to get your rotation about the bar exactly right and avoid the need to lift the feet.
Clearly, if you bend your knee too much you will have to straighten your knees so they are in better alignment with the arch in the remainder of your body. I think it is better to travel over the bar with your body in one flowing arch throughout the flight and avoid "drooping calves" altogether.
This isn't the whole story, but I'll start there and invite discussion. I'm sure I'll get some disagreement, because some people still think that a very arched body, and the resulting increase in rotation rate that it causes, is necessary. It is not; but more on that later.
Glen Stone
Horizontal rotation is sometimes referred to as rotation about the bar. It is the rotation that causes the jumper to rotate from a vertical orientation at takeoff, through a horizontal position above the bar, and then up-side-down into the pit.
This rotation is originates during the takeoff drive as the sum of two separate rotations:
1. Lateral rotation, which is rotation in the plane formed by the hips and shoulders (at their orientation at takeoff). Lateral rotation supplies the bulk of the rotation about the bar. Lateral rotation is sometimes called cartwheeling rotation. The axis of this rotation is front to back.
2. Somersaulting rotation, which is rotation in the plane formed by the spine and sternum (breastbone, also as they are oriented at takeoff). Somersaulting rotation, when used, provides only a small fraction of the rotation about the bar. Indeed, I consider using any somersaulting rotation at all to be an advanced technique, thus somersaulting rotation will not be discussed in this post. I would, in fact, avoid somersaulting rotation unless analysis of your bar clearance clearly shows that it is necessary. The axis of this rotation is side to side.
So, what is the proper amount of rotation about the bar? The correct amount is: just enough to rotate your body to a horizontal orientation at the moment the center of mass reaches it's apex (highest point). If everything else is done correctly, the apex of the flight will be directly above the center of the bar.
Executed in this way, your body can be held in a gently arched position throughout the flight and all parts of your body will clear the bar by approximately the same amount (lumps, bumps, and other projections from the underside of your body not withstanding).
Some will claim that you should lift your feet at the last moment, but in my opinion raising your feet is unnecessary at best, and counterproductive at worst. This is because raising your feet will drop your butt, and when the jump is really close you can't time this well enough to avoid catching something on the bar. Better to get your rotation about the bar exactly right and avoid the need to lift the feet.
Clearly, if you bend your knee too much you will have to straighten your knees so they are in better alignment with the arch in the remainder of your body. I think it is better to travel over the bar with your body in one flowing arch throughout the flight and avoid "drooping calves" altogether.
This isn't the whole story, but I'll start there and invite discussion. I'm sure I'll get some disagreement, because some people still think that a very arched body, and the resulting increase in rotation rate that it causes, is necessary. It is not; but more on that later.
Glen Stone
Getting your hips up is, I think important, and by dropping your head at the same time will result in getting your feet high as well, thus improving rotation rate during the second part of the jump.
ReplyDeletePrimarily, I view the "arch" you make with your body during your flight as a shape you take on to facilitate bar clearance. The exact shape of that arch is, therefore, dictated by the relationship between your rotation rate about the bar and the parabola traveled by your center of mass (CM). The most efficient shape for your arch is the one that gives constant clearance throughout the bar crossing.
ReplyDeleteImagine for a moment that you are at the peak of your flight, with your CM exactly aligned with the center of the bar, and perfectly rotated about the bar. Imagine also that your body is arched in such a way that by holding that arch throughout the rest of the flight allows the underside of your body to barely clear the bar with each body segment. In the absence of a demonstrably better method, I believe that this is the best you can do for bar clearance.
Raising any part of the body above the arch described above will lower some other part. The part that is lowered will eventually have to be raised. If observed closely this will result in 2 points on the body that "remain stationary" relative to your CM and accounting for your rotation about the bar. These "hinge points" are at approximately 1/4 and 3/4 of of your body height. You can't get around this unless you are a snake. And you can't change your arch or lift your legs or whatever fast enough, or time the change or lift well enough to avoid bar contact in a close jump.
In short, getting into the "efficient arch" and holding it is the winning strategy. The "efficient arch" for any given jumper varies with a few well defined factors, but is a bit complex to estimate. However, it is not the back breaker that most people seem to think it is. It is, indeed, a rather gentle arch that has little impact on rotation rate.
To be sure, arch increases rotation rate, but when adjusting the curve radius to "get orizontal on top", your coach can only look for your position at the peak of your flight, rotation rate at takeoff or how much your arch speeds up your rotation. Your coach only sees the resulting position of your body over the bar which is the result of your average rotation rate. As long as your arch is consistent (as it should be) the curve adjustment should directly control your average rotation rate. The arch should not be used as a device to "control" rotation rate, but rather as a device to control bar clearance. The curve radius should be used as a device to control your position at the peak of your flight via your average rotation rate. In real life (and isn't high jumping real life...) these arch and curve radius will have to be worked in tandum. I think it would be silly to think that one has to be perfected before you attack the other. Indeed, getting one aspect better makes it easier to improve the other in an ever closing spiral of correction.
Looking at a video of Stefan Holm, I see him positively throwing his head back and "following his head" around the bar, with his legs bent at the knees. When his hips cross the bar, he brings his knees up into a "sitting" position till the bar is under his knees and then he kicks his legs straight and even twitches his legs to the side to avoid the bar.
ReplyDeleteJust because he jumps high doesn't mean he isn't doing it wrong and couldn't do it better. The trouble with emulating the big boys is that the aren't usually the best examples. Take a look at Sotomayor's world record jump. It looks to me like a badly under-rotated jump that just had really big springs under it.
ReplyDeleteWhat I really admire about Stefan Holm is his "feel" for the bar. From the moment he takes off, he knows exactly where he is in relation to the bar. The more modern jumpers looks like they just jump blindly and have to ask their coach what went wrong and they are unable to react according the prevailing conditions. I wish I can find a way to teach my young athletes to be able to "see" the bar without looking at it.Pikke
ReplyDeleteHi Pikke!
ReplyDeleteI was looking at a post on sprintic.com that you wrote last June. I had no idea you were so young. You show remarkable insight and determination for someone so young.
It is true that you have to keep track of all your body parts as you cross the bar. That way, if something is a little "off" you can try to compensate. The big trick is to jump so the need to compensate is kept to a minimum.
You see, my Dad coaches me and he is the one with the insight. It is easy to follow his example. I help the youngsters with the basics of high jump and really appreciate the help I get from you. I am the Free State champion and my dream is one day to compete in the Olympics- you professional guys will have to help me though. Pikke
ReplyDeleteCoach, I have a question.
ReplyDeleteI am coaching a HS athlete that cleared 6'8 last year and on his 6'10 jump he had hip clearance and just hit his heel on the bar. I am actaully the Junior high coach so I only get to work with him when my season is over. This year he isn't clearing 6'6 and the coaches and athlete say he is hitting it with his legs or feet again.
Last year I moved him back a little bit and worked on leaning on the curve. We practiced for 2 days on this and then he cleared 6'8 for the first time ever and should have cleared the 6'10 jump.
I am rambling on a bit but my question is this.
I think his approach is what is causing him to hit it with his feet as he has the hip clearance to jump 7'0. If he is having trouble with his feet hitting the bar should I reduce his radius or increase it some? I have been reading and I am confusing myself reading so much.
Any help would really be appreciated. He has 3 weeks until state and two weeks until regionals. I would love for him to win this year but I think he will have to clear 7'0 to do this.
Generally, if you are hitting the bar with your legs you need to reduce the radius.
ReplyDeleteAt the peak of your flight your center of mass (just below the navel) should be directly over the bar and your body should be "horizontal". If your jumper does not appear to be horizontal at the peak of the flight, then make an estimate of how much he is short of getting horizontal. Reduce his radius 1 percent for each degree he is short of getting horizontal. Or, reduce the radius by 5 percent and see if his legs clear. If they don't, reduce the radius by another 5 percent (10 percent if you are feeling agressive). Keep reducing the radius until his legs clear.
The easiest way to recalculate an approach is to use my approach calculator "High Jump Coach 2010". It will give you a new set of measurements for the new radius instantly, and it will keep the total run length the same.
Can you get a video of your jumper? I would like to see him jump viewed looking down the length of the bar. I want to see how his bar clearance and his takeoff. You could email it to me or just put it up on YouTube
Also, I would like to know exactly how you are constructing the approach:
Angle between the flight path and the bar
Radius of the curve
Is the curve of constant radius
Is the curve tangent to the flight path
Is the curve tangent to the initial straight run
I will try to get a video for you. I am hoping to video it this week at practice so he can see himself jumping.
ReplyDeleteAnother issue is trying to get him to jump up. He carries so much speed into his jump that he is still very horizontal with his jump. When he clears 6'6 he is landing in the back of the pit and I just had to move him back more and more last year because it was the only way to get his appex over the bar with only a few weeks to practice.
To be honest, I am not sure I am smart enough to tell you the answers to the questions you asked me. I do know the curve is tangent to his intitial run but not sure about the flight path.
I have never measured the radius of his curve. Do I meause it from the middle of the pit, his take off spot, or the landing spot in the pit?
I am going to get his measurements today. I just don't know where to measure the radius of his curve. I guess I could put all the other numbers in the HJ approach Calculator and see what the radius spits out to me.
ReplyDeleteI got that calculator from you about 2 years ago but didn't know enough to use it. I think I can use it now.
On the jumper we discussed above, he hits the bar many times because his jump is too horizontal and to the middle of the pit. I think he needs to go at an angle that makes him go to the back corner of the pit so he jumps down the bar a little bit more and puts his appex more in the middle of the bar.
How would I go about doing that? Should we just work on approaches that have him going to the back corner? Change his radius or start positions?
Since I didn't know where to measure the radius from we just measured everything else.
ReplyDeleteHis distance to his target is 15 feet.
Starting point from there is 50 Ft 7 in.
His take off is 3 ft 7 inches from the standard.
Usually even with the bar.
His jump length is 14 feet on average, I would say 15 feet is closer to it when he explodes.
I don't know what his angle with the bar is but I would venture to guess it is around 45 degrees. I don't know how to get him to have a small angle so that he jumpes down the bar a little more.
When I put them in your approach calculator, which numbers should I enter first. If I start to adjust some, it makes the others adjust and I get confused.
Thanks for all your help. One last thing, how do I calculate his stride length?
Ok, here is what I did to try to figure out what his approach is now:
ReplyDelete1. Enter the "Flight" length of 14'-0"
2. Enter an "Angle". I tried 30 degrees and found that this gave me an "Out" distance of 3'-6". Close enough to your measurement. Thus, I think that if your flight measurement is right and if he crosses the bar in the center and at the peak of his flight that this must be the correct angle (give or take a little).
3. I adjusted the "Radius" until the "Target" became 15'-0" which happened when the "Radius" was set to 31'-0". This is a huge radius.
4. I adjusted the "Run" distance until the "Start" distance became 50'-7" which happened when "Run" was set to 52'-8.4".
Having done all that, I have some kind of representation of his current approach. However, it is unlikely that he runs a constant radius curve which makes it impossible to predict how well this approach calculation represents his actual approach.
So, here is what I suggest:
1. Keep "Flight" and "Angle" as I have them.
2. Adjust "Radius" to 19'-0".
3. Leave "Run" as it is, but be prepared to make field adjustments to the starting point based on actual running length. When he finds his real starting point you should adjust "Run" so that "Start" is the actual distance from his starting point to the target point.
3. Make sure you read all the material on the web site (www.highjumpcoach.com) under:
High Jump Coach Book > HJ Technique
including the all the sub-pages. This stuff does not work if not used correctly so understanding how it works and how to use it is critical.
He may find this approach strange and there is a distinct possibility that he won't adapt quickly resulting in poorer performance in the short term. However, if he tries it and can't adapt quickly in a practice session, he can just go back to what he was doing without any penalty.
Regarding stride length. This is in there for completeness. It really doesn't matter because he will not be starting his curve "on" a particular stride, but rather he will be beginning his lean around the intercept point (see approach diagram).
Where are you? I am in central New Jersey.
Thanks for the help.
ReplyDeleteI am located in Oklahoma.
I know his curve isn't a constant radius. His angle to the bar is way to large. He often times jumps from the first standard and lands in the middle of the pit. The kid is clearing heights off pure ability.
Thanks for your help. We will try this in practice and see what happens. If it he struggles too much, can I ask a question.
What is the best way to get an athlete to reduce their angle to the bar? Many times his Appex is a foot or 2 past the bar and I think this is becuase he doesn't jump at the right angle. That is the main reason he doesn't clear the higher heights because he doesn't jump down the bar at all, thus getting to the bar before he reaches his appex.
Thanks.
Questions are always welcome.
ReplyDeleteThe takeoff angle is forced on the jumper by the approach path. Once on that path they have little choice about the angle.
Resetting the angle based on the flight distance should center his flight on the bar. This, of course depends on how well he can adapt to this rather large change in his perspective as he approaches the bar. Make sure he does not run past his takeoff mark.
Is it possible to set up some sort of video link to the practice field, or can you shoot short clips with your cell phone and send them to me via phone or, better yet, email them to me. If I know when he is practicing in advance and we have a way to get video or at least images to me quickly, perhaps we can do this interactively.
ReplyDeleteI can email you some video from my phone today at practice.
ReplyDeleteWe won't do too many jumps because we are trying to save his legs some just because he is the best sprinter on our team too. They run a lot in practice and I am hoping to get his legs back by Saturday. He runs the anchor on the4x100 and the 4x400.
We practice today around 230 Central time. I will email them if I can get some good ones today.
Thanks again for your help.
Yes, you can email them to me at gsstone50@gmail.com. Try to get angles that show his lean angle at takeoff (looking down the length of his flight path) and/or his bar clearance (looking down the length of the bar.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry about the quality of the video or jumps - send what you get. Any video is better than flying blind with no video.
Well bad news, he is done jumping this year. He pulled his hamstring in practice Tuesday and is hurt for the season.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your help. I have another youngin', freshman, jumping this week and I think he has a chance to clear 6'4. Not bad considering he is onlyl 5'8.
Sorry to hear that. Give him my best.
ReplyDeleteGood luck with your "youngin'". Let me know if you need help with his jumping.
Well, this weekend he jumped twice, just enough to qualify and win regionals. He stopped after he cleared 6'0 but looked good doing it.
ReplyDeleteThe freshman just missed clearing 6'2, if we can get him to quit reaching with his last step and slowing down I think he will clear it at State this week.
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